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Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

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Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by jd"MF"grimes on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:58 pm

Although I LOVE my ti spring...today I went back to steel Crying or Very sad .....While doing routine maintenance on my Yeti 303 suspension...I discovered damage on my 2012 RC4....

[img][/img]
[img][/img]



Well....I looks like the spring I got...is slightly too big in diameter...The tolerance is off just enough that it outer spring is rubbing pretty good on the piggy back and it also looks like that there has bee some rubbing on the inside of the spring as well....The damage is only cosmetic...but for fear of causing further damage or even getting injured...I sadly went back to the Fox steel spring. The Ti spring that I am using is a RCS...I know that it worked perfectly fine on a CCDB and the previous years DHX and RC4
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by jd"MF"grimes on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:08 pm

BTW I have a 450 RCS 450x3 Ti spring for sale...works on CCDB DHX...


Last edited by jdgrimes on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Mudd on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:19 pm

They make spacers for that.
Have them on my CCDB/ti combo with no problems!

Obtanium is out of business, but I'm sure you can find a set second hand. Here's a 2008 article about it:
http://www.sicklines.com/2008/04/01/obtainium-performance-a-proper-titanium-spring/


Last edited by Mudd on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by jd"MF"grimes on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Mudd wrote:They make spacers for that.
Have them on my CCDB/ti combo with no problems!

not sure what you mean....I did find out that my spring is for the CCDB
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Mudd on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:30 pm

Just Google: Obtanium Performance Adapters

There may be other manufacturers.
There's a British company called "K9"
Go here: http://www.cycotic.com.au/products/K9-Spring-Adapters.html

I have a set in my junk drawer.
Measure the I.D. of your ti spring and the O.D. of your shock body and let me know...


Last edited by Mudd on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by cableguy on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:57 pm

Mudd wrote:Just Google: Obtanium Performance Adapters

There may be other manufacturers.
There's an Aussie company called "K9"
Go here: http://www.cycotic.com.au/products/K9-Spring-Adapters.html

I have a set in my junk drawer.
Measure the I.D. of your ti spring and the O.D. of your shock body and let me know...

K9 is a UK company. Their springs are 1.5" ID and so their adapters won't fit. Ditto for Obtainium.

JD has problem with spring rubbing both inside and outside the shock. So an adapter won't work in this case. He needs a spring with 1.38" ID.

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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Mudd on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:00 pm

Ok, here's what I have in my "spares".
I have 2 of these Delron adapters....

Adapter ID = 1.33" (33.65mm)
Adapter Thickness = .5" (12.75mm)
Spring ID = 1.5" (38.10mm)

My CCDB looks like the first pix on this page: http://dirt.mpora.com/news/obtainium-performance-products-available-in-the-uk.html
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:07 pm

i have the same issue with my Ti coil on my X6 rear shock....is rubbing the underneath just like yours.....i think mine is due to the twisting of the spring as it compresses...i could care less tho, its just paint rubbing off, no gouging of the metal.

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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by perfektus on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:38 pm

cableguy wrote:
JD has problem with spring rubbing both inside and outside the shock. So an adapter won't work in this case. He needs a spring with 1.38" ID.

So he needs a spring with smaller diameter?

JD, I'd like to try out your spring on my CCDB. When and where are you guys riding again?
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by cableguy on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:47 pm

JD needs a spring with ID of 1.38" which is what Fox RC4's have. That little bit of play of 1.3mm causes the spring to move and twist and causes rub and grinding. OD also can't too big since RC4's have fat piggybacks.

CCDB has 1.43" so his would fit yours nicely if the spring rate is correct.

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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by perfektus on Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:16 pm

My bike rides great with a 500lb spring on the CCDB. I'm doubting the 500lbs rating, though, because the shock action is on the soft side.

If I can get it to ride the same with that 450lb ti, I'll take it.
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by jd"MF"grimes on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:20 am

mtblocos wrote:i have the same issue with my Ti coil on my X6 rear shock....is rubbing the underneath just like yours.....i think mine is due to the twisting of the spring as it compresses...i could care less tho, its just paint rubbing off, no gouging of the metal.

yea it seems mine is from compressing too....it seems OK when its on the bike and when I compress it in the garage....but that is some serious wear after just one ride....I think when I bottomed out a few times that it caused the spring to shift and hit the inside of the spring and shock as well.

yo perfektus....you are welcome to try the spring
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:57 am

Any spring will rub if the ID is too big the spring can go diagonal a smidge and catch the body and resevoir as it shifts. It won't do any real damage just hit stuff the bigger problem is if the spring is too big for the spring collars it can not center itself sitting off center and put too much stress on outside edge of perch causing the spring perch to fail.

So ti or steel its a fitment issue.

So as stated above if you could get spring perches with a bigger diameter to center the spring it would avoidndamage to the body and reservoir.

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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Cap'n on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:49 am

Excellent thread. Especially since I'm out shopping for a ti...and I have the 2012 RC4 as well. I'm just gonna hold off untill something can be proven to fit without scuffing up my shock....I guess.

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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by OCD on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:49 am

jdgrimes wrote:Although I LOVE my ti spring...today I went back to steel Crying or Very sad .....While doing routine maintenance on my Yeti 303 suspension...I discovered damage on my 2012 RC4....

[img][/img]
[img][/img]



Well....I looks like the spring I got...is slightly too big in diameter...The tolerance is off just enough that it outer spring is rubbing pretty good on the piggy back and it also looks like that there has bee some rubbing on the inside of the spring as well....The damage is only cosmetic...but for fear of causing further damage or even getting injured...I sadly went back to the Fox steel spring. The Ti spring that I am using is a RCS...I know that it worked perfectly fine on a CCDB and the previous years DHX and RC4

As I posted I was not sure of the RCS likelihood of rubbing because I had not ran it, but it looks as if you have ruled that brand out. DSP is the only TI coil that I can testify will not rub the RC4, up to 450lb anyway. My RC4 is unscathed with up to 2 preload turns. 500lb quite possibly could rub for all I know though, but that is speculation. My old Obtainium 425lb rubbed the hell of the piggyback of my last RC4 and very slightly rubbed my CCDB piggyback. My DSP 450lb doesn't rub either shock. However, the Obtainium rubbing was confined to only the piggyback, it never rubbed the shock body like yours. Well, keep your eye out for a DSP. I promise you will not have rubbing up to 450lb on the RC4 with the required 1-2 preload turns. More turns than that I cannot testify to and should not be done anyway, you would need the 500lb at that point.
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by oldschoolBMXer on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:10 am

JD, I had the same problem with a DSP spring on my 2009 DHX5.0 shock. The fix was a 50¢ rubber o-ring that can be purchased from most hardware store.

This will help eliminate the extra play and reduce your chances of the spring hitting the reservoir or shock body. I assume Fox has not changed their dimensions on the shock body because it would mean retooling to make their springs with bigger ID and producing new preloader adjuster nuts and who knows what else. (obviously this would change overall appearance of the shock and possibly impact other parts internally). I'm going to go out on a limb and say the specs are identical because of all these production efficiency and ROI questions that they'd have to ask. They are "FOX", no way they change to work with other manufacturer's standards. That said, I love my fox stuff, they work and I rarely have issues with their durability.

Titanium behaves differently than steel; they all rub. Even the ti spring in my 2012 Fox 40 rubbed and clanked compared to a steel spring. Since Titanium is a cleaner-purer steel it has stronger "memory" (it wants to go back to it's original shape even more), it makes sense that it will fight the forces while being compressed -- instead of compressing into itself (like steel), it wants to fight back so you get the lateral movement as well. That's why when you ride a Ti, the rear end feels lively.

DSP OEMs Ti spring for Cane Creek so there's no question that they work together, fit wise. But I had the same rubbing issue more so than on any other shock I have owned. This is why they put in the black plastic sleeve near the middle, where the most lateral movement will occur to protect the gold ano. I brought this up with Malcolm from CC and he said they (CC employees) cut the sleeve off and the rubbing went away. But as locos said, it's all cosmetic. Shock will perform just fine.
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by cableguy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:11 am

My Progressive spring (the company stop making it few years ago) has ID of 1.4" and fits Fox RC4. No rubs and I have bottomed out few times. My Obtainiun which requires use of adapter would definitely rub. It has ID of 1.5" but has fairly small OD, but still doesn't work with RC4. But it does with old DHX, and most other shocks with adapters or Vivid without one.

RCS makes both 1.38" for Fox and 1.43" for Marz, Cane Creek, etc. So if you find one in 1.38", that would be the one to use for Fox shocks.

PS I disagree with the statement that Ti springs rub. I have had Ti on 4-5 bikes (DHX, Vivid, BOS, RC4) in the past and currently and none of them rubbed. You just have to make sure the ID matches up with the shock properly.


Last edited by cableguy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by OCD on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:24 am

Just to clear up another idea. I had the Obtainium 425lb with the Obtainium Fox bearing adapters that were designed to allow the spring to rotate as it compresses so "it doesn't bind and rub". I put that in quotes because it was a gimmick and did not work. It was a great idea in theory but due to their design it did not work after the bike got dirty or muddy. They were somewhat of a hollowed out Obtainium plastic spring spacer that had a special flat round needle bearing that sat in it and then had a cap that rested on the bearing. There was one of those on each end of the spring and although they did fit the RC4 they were poor quality and did not work. There was no seal involved in the equation so mud and dirt and water got in right away and they eventually ceased to rotate and the binding and rubbing continued. So don't waste your time looking for them. They only fit Obtainium, they were added weight and simply did not work.
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by OCD on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:27 am

My CCDB does not have the plastic sleeve because it will cause any spring to rub which is noisy and annoying. My 450lb DSP fits perfectly on both the CCDB and 2012 RC4 with no rubbing anywhere on either shock with no spacers, o-rings or bearing kits required.
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by cableguy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:38 am

I don't think I trust o-rings. Rubber can become squeezed to almost nothing. Plus o-rings on air shocks don't last more than few month for me.

A better solution might be get something like this Obtainium adapter made with either plastic or aluminum. I need to use this with Obtainium (or K9) for shocks with ID less than 1.5".

Maybe JD can get someone with a lathe or machine shop to make one to take up the slack of 0.05". The OD of the spring might still to be large though so it would be a trial.


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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by jd"MF"grimes on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:48 am

DAMN guys ! THANKS...and I agree with Steve...this is a great thread. Upon further inspection of my RC4 and my TI spring...Where the RC4 has been rubbed on the piggy back...it rubbed a flat spot into the blur bottom out dial and a flat spot into the larger part of the piggy back body. It is all cosmetic and definitely will not effect the performance of the shock. The spring itself shows minimal wear, where it rubbed. I am going to test out some stuff to hold the spring better...After reading this thread...the only thing I am worried about is...the spring shifting off the collars and somehow binding, If this happened off a big feature...it could be catastrophic
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by jd"MF"grimes on Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:35 pm

So I emailed FOX to see what titanium spring the recommend for the RC4...here is their response.....

"Hello,
We would not be able to recommend a supplier for the spring as many companies are no longer producing these titanium rear shock springs, but the correct spring would need an internal diameter of 1.375”

Thanks,
Tom Karambela
Aftermarket Sales Representative – Bicycle Division"
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

Post by Mudd on Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:04 pm

Typical of Fox to respond like that.
It's all about product liablilty.
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Re: Ti Spring...I went back to steel...BEWARE

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